Yup, the two camps are different - although they have united recently because of the conservatism displayed by players in recent months and especially recent days (the start of July 2008 will be remembered with groans for many months to come in these parts, probably as long as this show is talked about here), they are usually mutually exclusive, though sometimes the Wakeyist camp (mis?)appropriate the methodology of the analyst camp and as mentioned, the analyst camp are sometimes frustrated into the Wakeyist corner when mathematically poor Deals are made. Indeed, I'd say redrum666 has made a permanent shift - he was in the analyst camp, in my view, last year, but is now clearly a Wakeyist ally.

Anyway. You're right. This place is fascinating whatever you think of the show, and good moderation has ensured that it is almost always nothing more and nothing less than a hotbed of intriguing debate.

Long may that continue.

V well said sir!

Okay Am i the only one who didn't know Les was on this forum? I am so naive, I really am.

Admire the way you've come on here to defend your position sir.
As i said before you won me over with the way you played the game, and i hope your words have gone some way to persuading others that you are not as bad as you may have come across during other peoples games.
With hindsight it's easier to see where you were coming from, you were just unfortunate in the way you came across

I only found out 5 minutes ago, so you're not the only one!

Count me in!! I have to say, I didn't find Les as gloomy in the wings as some of you, I seem to remember thinking once or twice that he gave some good advice to whoever was in the chair at that point, and sometimes I thought he didn't. My only problem with him came with that partonising put-down of Dave, and it was quite ironic that Dave destroyed his game.

For that reason I wouldn't have been too upset to see him go away with a blue, but I have to say fair play, and well done for playing the game the way it should be played and being true to your heart. And also for coming here and posting such an articulate and well thought out response to all the things that have been posted. It's always easier, as someone else pointed out, to just come on and fire back like a spoilt kid before you've put your brain in gear (taking notes, Suzi & Tommii?)

Anyway, well done mate, you gave it your best shot, and that entitles you to hold your head up high and rise above it.

Can i just thank the members of this board who have actually posted after my response. Much of which has been positive, although not all, yet nevertheless some accepting that us players are real people and not merely caricatures invented by tv. This is still something which my 5 year old is still struggling to come to terms with despite the fact that she lives with me! 'Daddy is Charles a real person, will i meet him?'
Having read the recent posts can i just add one thing. Big D i fully understand your assessment of my treatment of Dave and the way i came across in Lance's game. At that moment in time i was more concerned that Lance, probably one of the three or four people i bonded with best, would make a decision based on the view of someone who he knew for a relatively brief period....i doubt they even spoke in the pub the night before. I apologise for my emotions making me appear patronising, but this was genuine through my feelings for Lance at the time, and in no way were a reflection on my opinion of Dave. I actually agreed with Dave in his view but did not want anyone to spell out that it was a no brainer. Ultimately, i feel that the player must always make the decision with guidance.
Dave and i had no problems with me 'patronising' him, this is perhaps supported in my game when Brian said he would pay for my daughter's Princess bedroom. This is an echo backed audibly by one other player in the show Dave.
Thanks once again for the people who have posted in response and in particular the ones who have posted privately.

Well I Take back what I said. I think it was maybe just a backlash like many because of all the money that was squandered.

After all, you're from Darlington so I'm sure I can like a fellow North-Easter

there is a les fan club for people who want to join


http://www.dond.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14763

Thank you Mackem, my wife is one as well. That's two i 've now recently made peace with!!

Just catching up on the last few days as I've been away for a couple of days - I actually taped Les's game as I thought it could be intersting. I actually feel a bit guilty comparing him to 1p Adam when a very similar thing happened, I was abslutely stunned when he turned down the 25k, but relatively few people have gambled for the 100k so it was good to see him have a go, and it did seem as though he'd be genuinely gutted if he'd dealt and missed out on 100k. He seemed Ok with winning a blue himself but really didn't want to see anyone else win one which is what Adam seemed like to me. I do have the suspicion that they edited his on-screen persona to make his game seem more dramatic!

And he's obviously a very devoted father, it showed big time! (Ironic that "1512" was her birthday given how he played the game!!)

And what a wonderful town he comes from - I've even played at the golf course he runs!

This talk of camps is ridiculous, this isn't a holiday resort- there is no such thing as the "Analyst" camp and the "Wakeyist" camp. You make it sound like some sort of war (and, typically, you're probably suggesting that Wakeyists are the Germans...) which is just a way of creating more arguments and tensions. I, for one, do not consider myself a wakeyist, I consider myself an analyst with a strong tendency to take risks.

As for Les- well, if this really is down to editing then Endemol should be ashamed of themselves. I personally was very taken back by your no deal and it stunned me no end- I may very well have dealt there myself- and it changed my opinion of you somewhat, though I stand by my comments that a lot of the advice you (supposedly) gave was (it seems) very unbalanced. It just seems peculiar to advocate deals time and time again and talk of doom and gloom, yet then gamble £25,000 on an all or nothing finish.

Once again Les, fair play to you for coming on here and standing up to be counted, and again for making your point so eloquently. I suppose in the heat of the moment your reaction to Dave was understandable, and not meant to be patronising, and let's face it, we've all said or done things in the heat of the moment that were out of character or inappropriate for the time. It also has to be remembered that the heat of that particular moment is one that few of us are ever likely to experience.

Of course we realise here that contestants are only human, and I guess that's always going to be the main point of contention between those who've actually played the game and those who haven't - our conception of your humanity is only what the editors shape it to be, and all we have on which to base our opinions.

I still think Dave was right and Lance should have played on, and it would appear that that's the majority opinion, but good on you for giving what you thought was the best advice at the time, and for having the integrity and the cahoneys to come here and stand by it.

You sound like a top bloke mate, and as they said on your show, Molly can be very proud of her Dad. And Lance is lucky to have met such a friend. Be lucky mate

Ugh, I wasn't that keen on Les in the wings but he certainly gave us a game. On the basis of 50:50 I sort of thought the £100,000 would be there because it wasn't for Mavis, but it wasn't unfortunately! Sorry Les!

Just watched the show, and i thought it was gripping, Well done Les on playing such a brave game. After kissing one chap, you then gave Noel and Charles a Kiss, is this a Darlington thing. I thouhgt Noel took the kiss very well.
Bit behind on shows so not sure if Dave has played yet to donate your daughters bedroom decoration, I thought at least the banker would have rung back and thrown in some paint.

Hope you daughter and rest of family have alot more luck in the future.

Did Noel smell nice by the way? And the thought of Charles reading the forums excites me greatly, one of the best characters I think, in my time of watching DOND.

Hi Tricky,
Glad you enjoyed the show. It was a tad tense but good fun nevertheless. Thank you for your kind sentiments to the family it is very much appreciated.
I don't know where the kissing came from, it certainly wasn't a pre-conceived plan, just something which happened and a means of thanking people and saying goodbye as i ended my appearances. As i said to Val when i selected her box....'i will say goodbye to Val first.'
I can assure you kissing in this fashion is not a Darlington thing!
Noel took it in good spirits and in the manner it was intended. As for his odour i am afraid i cannot remember as i was getting off my rollercoaster!
I have spoken with Charles earlier today and he is in good spirits. He has enjoyed a weekend at Lords where he was as distinguishable as Kevin Pietersen.
He does frequent the board and we have discussed on a few occassions.
He is a great man and as you point out one of the most memorable DOND characters.

Wow, what a game. Very similar to Mavis's and exactly the same amount of tension!

I'd always looked forward to Les's game, generally due to the way in which he was edited during his time on the wings. And after his game, he has my respect.

To turn down that £25,000 took a large amount of courage and shocked me very much. It's just a shame it wasn't the £100,000.

But as i've said, mass respect to you Les, you certainly gave us a memorable game.

Cheers Tom,
Just as enjoyable for me. It wasn't meant to be but i gave it a go.
As i said at the end of the game...but it was cut!.. nobody died.
Thanks for your post