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Monkfish

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:56 pm    Author: Monkfish    Post subject: Contestant Playing Order?

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:30 pm
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Can someone please describe the exact procedure used for players selecting boxes; how the show selects which players are to play on each recording session; their order of play; and in which order player and box selection is carried out.

I'm trying to ascertain whether the playing order is “officially” recorded before the players pick their box numbers from the hat?

If this is not done, then it opens up the possibility that the show can manipulate which amounts come to the table, by altering the play order based on the box selections for each particular show.

I suspect that a dodgy phone-in competition is not the only dodgy behaviour that this show is pulling. Maybe a recent contestant can tell me the exact procedure.


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garylq

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:19 pm    Author: garylq    Post subject:
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I dont know what the procedure is, only somebody who has worked on the show could answer that one for you, and that is extremely unlikely to happen.

In the current climate regarding broadcast competitions, where absolutely everything is being scrutinised under a microscope I would say it is very unlikely that DOND is rigged in anyway. If you visit the studio everybody there, Noel and all the behind the scenes crew, are desperate for a big win.

I have not looked at the statistics, but I am confident that an analysis of how many times each box value has come to the table will confirm that the selection is random.

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pat_east_wing

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:40 pm    Author: pat_east_wing    Post subject: Re: Contestant Playing Order?
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Monkfish wrote:
Can someone please describe the exact procedure used for players selecting boxes; how the show selects which players are to play on each recording session; their order of play; and in which order player and box selection is carried out.

I'm trying to ascertain whether the playing order is “officially” recorded before the players pick their box numbers from the hat?

If this is not done, then it opens up the possibility that the show can manipulate which amounts come to the table, by altering the play order based on the box selections for each particular show.

I suspect that a dodgy phone-in competition is not the only dodgy behaviour that this show is pulling. Maybe a recent contestant can tell me the exact procedure.
All i can say is the contestants pick a ball out of a bag with a number on it the boxes are lined up on the floor when you enter the studio and then which ever number you pick the box is then put in front of you when the show starts the lights flash on the contestants and when their name comes up it is there turn in the chair but the crew know from early morning who is going to be chosen but the contestants have no idea at all. i hav,nt a clue how they choose who is going and when.If the crew know well before hand it can,t be dodgy as the boxes hav,nt been chosen then

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Monkfish

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:15 pm    Author: Monkfish    Post subject:

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Quote:
If the crew know well before hand it can't be dodgy as the boxes haven't been chosen then


True if it is done this way for each player, but how many programs are recorded in each session? If they say record 3 a day, but the play order is not determined until after the boxes are selected for each show, this would create the opportunity for someone high-up in production to influence the size of sums that come to the table.

As far as dodgy dealing is concerned, the people who produce these shows are very clever, and they would know exactly how to "fix" a show whilst maintaining "plausible denial". Just so much as a "look" between production staff can be enough to tip the odds from a purely random situation.

Until recently it was the 250K that had come to the table the least number of times. This started to look suspicious. Then, oh what a surprise, it comes to the table twice to boost it up a bit.

A show like this must be able to modulate the amount of money it pays out. This is because as the popularity of the show diminishes it can't be sold for the same price to the broadcaster (or doesn't take in so much money via advertising). I realised right from the start that if DOND was purely random, the only way to achieve this is for the Banker to improve his grasp of psychology and make borderline offers. He has done this, but whether that is enough to pay for the show in the long term is questionable. However, controlling how often just the 250K comes to the table makes a huge difference to the average payout. That would be enough for some breathing space.

If the producers of these types of show are smart, they will save some of the high sale value at the beginning of a popular series to help out when the popularity of the show starts to wane. I don't think “Who Wants To Be A Millionaire” saved any money. I think the producers were quite happy to rake in their personal fortunes. That is why they have to modulate the difficulty of the questions now to control how much money they give away. It is no coincidence that the questions get generally harder once they give away a large sum. They can't keep giving away small sums of course otherwise the popularity of the show would suffer, so every now and again they make the questions easier to produce a large winner, if none happens naturally for a while.

And we all know that the 50:50 in millionaire is rarely random.

No, I'll need some convincing before I believe that some subtle dogginess isn't going on at some level in DOND. And trust me, the contestants and general production crew would be the last to know about it.


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garylq

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:09 pm    Author: garylq    Post subject:
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If anything dodgy is going on (not that I think there is) it will surely be exposed sooner or later.

Until then, or if DOND actually is fair and random, the show will be up there with 'XY or Z killed JFK?', 'the Apollo moon landings were faked', 'Princess Diana was murdered by The Royal Family' and all those other top conspiracy theories ;) .

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MisterAl

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:23 pm    Author: MisterAl    Post subject:
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Monkfish wrote:
Until recently it was the 250K that had come to the table the least number of times. This started to look suspicious. Then, oh what a surprise, it comes to the table twice to boost it up a bit.

If the £250k came to the table exactly once every 22 consecutive games that'd be predictable and thus not random. In a random process, sometimes there'll be droughts and sometimes there'll be clusters, which is precisely what we've seen. It's this very unpredictability that defines the word 'random'.

The idea that producers are engineering things to ensure that certain amounts come to the table is, frankly, a bit silly. They don't need to do that since leaving things entirely to chance is by far the best way to ensure the game is as unpredictable as it is.


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h2005

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:47 pm    Author: h2005    Post subject:
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Monkfish wrote:
Quote:
If the crew know well before hand it can't be dodgy as the boxes haven't been chosen then


I believe they choose the 3 players at the start of the recording day, or even further in advance. The boxes the contestants are assigned is totally random, so I don't see how it could be fixed... :?

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pat_east_wing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:41 pm    Author: pat_east_wing    Post subject:
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Monkfish wrote:
Quote:
If the crew know well before hand it can't be dodgy as the boxes haven't been chosen then


True if it is done this way for each player, but how many programs are recorded in each session? If they say record 3 a day, but the play order is not determined until after the boxes are selected for each show, this would create the opportunity for someone high-up in production to influence the size of sums that come to the table.

As far as dodgy dealing is concerned, the people who produce these shows are very clever, and they would know exactly how to "fix" a show whilst maintaining "plausible denial". Just so much as a "look" between production staff can be enough to tip the odds from a purely random situation.

Until recently it was the 250K that had come to the table the least number of times. This started to look suspicious. Then, oh what a surprise, it comes to the table twice to boost it up a bit.

A show like this must be able to modulate the amount of money it pays out. This is because as the popularity of the show diminishes it can't be sold for the same price to the broadcaster (or doesn't take in so much money via advertising). I realised right from the start that if DOND was purely random, the only way to achieve this is for the Banker to improve his grasp of psychology and make borderline offers. He has done this, but whether that is enough to pay for the show in the long term is questionable. However, controlling how often just the 250K comes to the table makes a huge difference to the average payout. That would be enough for some breathing space.

If the producers of these types of show are smart, they will save some of the high sale value at the beginning of a popular series to help out when the popularity of the show starts to wane. I don't think “Who Wants To Be A Millionaire” saved any money. I think the producers were quite happy to rake in their personal fortunes. That is why they have to modulate the difficulty of the questions now to control how much money they give away. It is no coincidence that the questions get generally harder once they give away a large sum. They can't keep giving away small sums of course otherwise the popularity of the show would suffer, so every now and again they make the questions easier to produce a large winner, if none happens naturally for a while.

And we all know that the 50:50 in millionaire is rarely random.

No, I'll need some convincing before I believe that some subtle dogginess isn't going on at some level in DOND. And trust me, the contestants and general production crew would be the last to know about it.
The crew know first thing on the morning who is going and it was leeked out to me one day so i knew who was going on the next show.

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Last edited by pat_east_wing on Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pealpixie

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:18 pm    Author: pealpixie    Post subject:

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When I was on the show, after I had played, the crew said to me that the entire 2 weeks I was there had had the running order for players agreed well in advance (probably at a production meeting), even before most of us had arrived!

they do film 3 a day, but they know which three long in advance.


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StatsMan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:42 am    Author: StatsMan    Post subject:

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On a slightly different note, does anyone know whether they have more than one set of red boxes in a recording day? Given that the turnaround between shows can be quite short, I'm willing to believe there are at least 2 sets they use per day.

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h2005

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:39 pm    Author: h2005    Post subject:
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I seem to remember that the earlier contestants were told not to lean on the boxes or open them too vigorously, as they're expensive and they like to get as much life out of them as possible.

I assume they probably replace the whole lot once a week (in recording terms) and may replace or repair the odd one or two invidiually if they get damaged somehow.

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greeny

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:42 pm    Author: greeny    Post subject:

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h2005 wrote:
I assume they probably replace the whole lot once a week (in recording terms) and may replace or repair the odd one or two invidiually if they get damaged somehow.


Like when Noel throws the box in the air and it breaks! (only happened to boxes 6 and 11 so far) I wonder if Noel gets told off for throwing the box in the air :?


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Monkfish

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:56 pm    Author: Monkfish    Post subject:

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The issue is not so much knowing who is going to play on each recording, but more the EXACT ORDER of those designated to play on that day. If this is pre-arranged and that order religiously observed, then it would put my mind at ease as to the randomness of the selection process. But until this information is within the public domain, no one really knows.

I think these shows must be far more strictly regulated. Who appoints the independent adjudicator? Who pays her wage? Is she from some official monitoring agency that is totally independent of the broadcaster and open to public scrutiny?

I know the human brain is designed to see patterns in randomness, but hopefully I've been around long enough to be able to factor that into my judgement. And my judgment is that this show and others like it are not all they appear to be. Not that the sort of subtle strings that are being pulled could ever be proven — it's called maintaining plausible denial. However, this is difficult to maintain and the phone-in competition scandals are a prime example of "the failing of the human condition" over "truly independent procedure".

I also believe that there should be a body looking out for the rights of gameshow contestants, especially in "reality" TV shows. Some contracts that contestants feel "obliged" to sign are totally unacceptable in my opinion.

No. I stand by my suspicions, not just in regard to the selection process in this show, but in other areas of the show and in other shows.

Hopefully these competition scandals have been a wake-up call for producers.


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ShaneO

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:28 pm    Author: ShaneO    Post subject:
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How long gap is there between the contestant being announced on the show and them coming to the table? Because it seems to be straight away, but the next secnod they have things on top of their box and their family is sat right in the best place..


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splangyflange

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:49 pm    Author: splangyflange    Post subject:
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no they take us away for about 10mins get us microphoned up and just calm us down ect....x


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Monkfish

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:32 pm    Author: Monkfish    Post subject:

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Quote:
In a random process, sometimes there'll be droughts and sometimes there'll be clusters, which is precisely what we've seen. It's this very unpredictability that defines the word 'random'.


The chance that the 250K appears last in the frequency list is only 1/22. Even if it appeared in the bottom 3 that would still be roughly 1/7 and cause for concern. As I said before, they would only need to bias the 250K frequency to massage the show's average payout.


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daniel123

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:57 pm    Author: daniel123    Post subject:
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From what I've ascertained, the box selection is random in its randomest form and the player selection is made by Noel and a few members of the crew, who all know who's going to play before the show begins. Probably so they can get the infocard thingy out for the player.

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