Hello everyone!

I'm currently on sabbatical from work (enforced!) and always make sure I get up after lunch as one of the highlights of my days at home is eating breakfast in front of DOND! Great TV! I love Noel - the man's a genius, the way he works the crowd!

Though I am besotted with Noel, and would tune in to watch anything he presents, I'm confused by DOND. Why do people talk about "playing a great game?" Surely it's pure luck?

Can someone explain to me where the skill is?

C.

hi crispinflute

There is no skill, you're absolutely right. Dont listen to Noel when he says "Risk, reward and Timing" - or even that we've had 6 player victories so far[its only 4 i think]

Although you could say someone has played a good game, in the sense that they managed to avoid the big reds, maybe thats what they think is the skill in the game
Not sure though, and really Noel wasnt the best guy for this sort of thing...

I suppose there is an element of skill in decidng whether to deal or not at the right time.

I'll pick up on this. people see it from a differet point of view, let that be statistical or what the money means to them. Here's an example.

1p
£5
£500
---------
£3,000
£15,000
£50,000
£100,000
£250,000

Offer: £20,000

This would be an interesting position. £20,000 is a lot of money, and a lot could be done with, but the statistical side, that would be a bad offer. That's 38% of the average, and the chances of hitting the numbers higher than that are slim, so they would no deal whereas the target driven players would deal. Let's say they went on and opened up £100,000 £50,000 and £3,000.

1p
£5
£500
------------
£15,000
£250,000.

Offer: £25,000

Statistically, that is a very volatile board. Most people would deal this given there's one amount higher, and there's over a 78% chance of knocking that out in the next round. Statistically, 1 red and 2 blues would go leaving a blue/red situation.

The board can swing, swinging the players decision. The board says it all, and look at the offer from all aspects, then suss the player. Try and suss whether they're there for the game or the money.

Crispinflute,

Whilst there is clearly no skill in the game, the positioning of prizes in the boxes being random, there is definetly a significant degree of judgement in the game. As Aaron Brock shows calling when to take the bankers offer can be tricky and may lead to sub optimal outcomes depending on the players objective.

Whilst this isn't skill in a clear sense it does require a modocum of intelligence to 'play' the game well. For instance you would be stupid to take a £130,000 offer when only £100,000 and £250,000 remain but some contestants will still take the money.

Seeing as you watch it often I'm sure you've also seen contestants "game" the banker?

Boblish

Morning All

Whilst the statistical analysis of DOND helpfully given above by Aaron (what a large number of posts btw, impressive) is an interesting insight into the sophistication of the viewing public, I do have my doubts as to whether contestants actually analyse the game to this level.

Crispinflute, what is it about Noel that makes you besotted with him? Have you ever met him at all, for example at a stand up show? I imagine that he'd be good at that.

All the best.

The Daddy

Well, The Daddy, firstly i can tell you from experience[i'm in the top 10 aswell - maybe 9th but still] that posts arent everything. Easy to imress people with though

On topic, i agree, it is an interesting insight but most contestants[apart from Aaron, russell especially, Paul H and the like] probably just come on the show to grab an opportunity to get some money and their 2hrs or so[yep, DoND is edited that much] on the screen and then just buggar off.

anyway

Hi daniel123

I quite agree that the number of posts is not all important. However, it is one of the few reliable indicators that newbies can trust to guide them as to who the big names are on a site. Your tally is pretty high as well.



I imagine that that is case as well. They don't think that much about it and the game, when boiled down, is essentially one of luck. Can you get the unedited version as a DVD?

Regards

The Daddy

regarding the last question, i dont know.....would be nice if they did though

Or even better, show the unedited version every day instead of the 45-min version

They should release a DVD with edited-out sections of certain games... £120k Jennifer's would be fascinating. Sadly none exists... yet.

There's no skill to this game, only judgement on the value of money (and perhaps the understanding of mathematics, but that merely informs the core value judgement). It is entirely luck-based, but your attitude to money will interact with the luck in determining how much you win. The more cautious you are, the more likely you will end up with a moderate (£10-20k, perhaps) outcome, and the less likely it is you will end up with a massive or tiny sum.

Noel's definition of 'playing the game' is to No Deal - and I consider that horrifying, as it encourages viewers (many of whom are children and not aware of the value of money) to treat very large sums of money as somehow disposable and to believe that risk-taking is clearly positive. That's a very dangerous proposition in my opinion.

Welcome to the forums!

It's starting to make sense!

But I'm slightly disturbed by the low-level Noel-bashing that's going on. I wouldn't go so far as to say that KP's nuts - I agree that in his privileged position, admired and respected by millions, Noel must be held accountable. With great power comes great responsibility.

NE shouldn't encourage young children to spend money with abandon (this is the sole privilege of lawyers and bankers). However, despite such indiscretions, and some of his paisley shirts, I do believe that he's a 'great' of entertainment television.

No-one enthralls viewers like he does. Look at this forum - a game with no skill has generated a forum with thousands of posts! Well done Noel!

Most of the crowd usually agree with him as well. Admittedly, it is more exciting for the viewers if the contestants push the envelope and go for the big one but I have to agree with you that as a strategy going for a straight No Deal is a bad move. If you were actually playing as opposed to watching I would think that most people would be cautious as they would not want to lose the chance to win a decent (albeit unspectacular) amount of money.

There is some strategy in this game but it's mostly common sense. This makes the game completely different to WWTBAM? and ultimately, in my view, makes it far superior.

Regards

The Daddy

Ps. Thanks for the warm welcome KP.

The Daddy, I take it that your interest in DOND and Noel...



...is because you rate Noel as highly as I do? I've never met him in person, but I'd love to do so and often imagine such a union. I think we'd have a great deal in common, and I could give him some first-rate sartorial advice. Certain colours really don't flatter him, and paisley? Noel, please, you're an attractive man, don't subject your viewers to such shirts!

Hi there crispinflute

Good to see you back on your own thread.

I'm not sure about your little dig at lawyers and bankers though. I've known many lawyers who are happy to spend much time and money entertaining their vacation students and thus the vacation students do not have to spend their own funds. You should compare this with "nights out" with the editors from the office and their ilk. At such parties it's the vacation students who buy the editors drinks, usually because the vacation students earn more than their hapless editing colleagues.

Whilst I'm on the subject of editing, you'll note that enthrals has one "l".

As Aaron Brock has explained above, there is more to this game than one thinks. Keep thinking crispinflute and you'll see the skill element that you have so far missed.

Regards

The Daddy

The Daddy, without wishing to sound pompous, there is a skill element to using a dictionary that you have clearly missed. I do note that "Enthralls" has one "l" in your misspelling of it, but the English language dictates that two should be used.

And you confuse me, which editors are you referring to? I am at home most of the day, either watching DOND, sleeping, or eating cheese sandwiches.

Noel is superb at drawing entertainment value from ordinary people, making him a very good choice indeed to host a format like this where the game itself is rather minimal but becomes a whole lot more interesting (to most people) once personalised in some way. (I'm an Economics student, so I'd love it anyway...!)

Where he has gone (fatally, in my book) wrong is in deviating from a position of neutrality that he declared (and to a great extent followed) in the early episodes of the show. That's a huge issue, although how many people actually do listen to him I'm not sure. Too many, judging from certain parts of these forums...

Crispinflute

In that case, perhaps we are referring to different dictionaries. I shall say nothing further about it.

Are you an editor crispinflute? Ooops. Didn't mean to cause offence. It's just that the editors (we call them idiotors) in our office are the lowest paid chaps around. They spend their entire days editing mobile phone manuals!! Sad isn't it.

I have to agree with KP on this. Noel is increasingly going out of his way now to stir things up on the show. It's almost as if he knows that there isn't any skill involved so he has to go sticking his nose in trying to make more of it. It's fascinating to watch.

Regards

The Daddy

Dear The Daddy.

I'm not quite sure why you have a misplaced fixation with editors. Perhaps this is due to insecurities that your standard of English is inadequate? I recommend you change your MS Word settings to "English" rather than "American" before attempting to criticise the spelling of your superiors again.

To return to this forum, concerning the appreciation of DOND, I wish you would cease taunting me with regard to salaries. As I rather subtly stated before I am currently unemployed and finding my current situation rather depressing. DOND gives me relief and refuels my aspiration. I now realise that there is minimal skill involved, but I am inspired by Noel and the way in which he gives so many a chance to succeed. These people have the opportunity to control their destinies for 30 minutes of televised tension. Once again, I say congratulations to Noel. And I'd appreciate fewer snide and slightly obscure comments about salaries from yourself, The Daddy.

C.

Oh give over ! Nobody is gambling or risking a penny of their own money. The big sums are disposable because most of them eventually disappear during the course of a game and everybody goes home with more than they come with even if its only 1p.

Risk taking and accepting challenges is very often positive in many walks of life but the case of DOND nobody is risking anything at all.

The other thing you don't seem to be able to grasp is that the watching multitudes love no dealers and shows that go to the end which are exciting. Noel's attitude to the game reflects this and it his job to try and make the game as exciting as possible for them. Nobody I know analyses each game in any sort of depth (if at all) and they all like games which go to the end where the players take a gamble. They all like Noel.

I don't know why you've got it in for poor old Noel but i wish you'd change the record.

I agree that you're not risking anything at all. The thing here is, say they got offered £33,000 that's a *beep* lot of money, and they may not want to lose that opportunity. Oh, and if everyone went to the end I'd stop watching the show.