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JuliePenguinFan

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:03 am    Author: JuliePenguinFan    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne
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AnneM wrote:
She did as she pleased and had nobody to answer to. Her dream was there but alas did not come to be. She was very dignified and I for one admire her very much. :smt023


Absolutely spot on Anne. :smt023 I have just watched the show, was on the edge of my seat and in tears at the end. An utter DOND classic of classics. Corinne was beyond amazing, a true lady and I too admire he. Her game will be one I'll never forget. You are one gutsy lady Corinne. Wise, wonderful and serene. All who know you are lucky people to have someone like you touch their lives.

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CrazyChair

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:44 am    Author: CrazyChair    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:34 pm
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It would have been an amazing one to be in the studio for! I don't think we'll see a game like that again for a long time. I loved it. It's nice to see a game like that once in a while. It's a shame that the £250k was in the other box, but it was still a great game.


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dougal18

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:52 am    Author: dougal18    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:51 am
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Wow.

I doubt Corrine's game will send the others into a cycle of third offer deals or into going all the way. She is a one off.

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SeahawkTim

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:58 am    Author: SeahawkTim    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:33 pm
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Of course, this is the game that both UKNova and TheBox drag their heels to put up... :smt011 Had to read the recap here to find out what happened; should have known something momentous took place when it was already at 6 pages!

Mathematically, Corinne's decision was a very poor one. Not even being offered 2-to-1 odds to gamble and having no safety net whatsoever makes this an incredibly foolhardy risk. Judging by the recap, she sounds like she was at peace with the outcome, but the fact of the matter is she's never going to see that kind of money again. Almost reminds me of the players we see on the American version, who "know" the million is in their case and charge blindly onward until they're proven wrong.

A real shame it didn't work out, especially since that last offer was so rich. But games like this are the reason we watch this show, aren't they?


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johnr

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:59 pm    Author: johnr    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:17 pm
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Noel will be in true OTT mode today. Quite surprised the banker didn't nip down town and buy a scale model car as a consolation prize to be honest!

Glad I didn't see any spoilers etc, I missed the show live yesterday so made sure to avoid the radio / newspapers this morning just in case! Pity 4OD SUCKS so much, it got to 2 box and the stupid thing crashed! If the BBC can do it so well, why can't anyone else :smt011


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wkd

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:02 pm    Author: wkd    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:04 pm
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SeahawkTim wrote:
Of course, this is the game that both UKNova and

Mathematically, Corinne's decision was a very poor one.


Mathematically it was perfectly sound. Nearly two to one on an even money chance. It might be crazy for a myriad of other possible reasons but mathematically there can be no complaint.


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SeahawkTim

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:13 pm    Author: SeahawkTim    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:33 pm
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wkd wrote:
Mathematically it was perfectly sound. Nearly two to one on an even money chance. It might be crazy for a myriad of other possible reasons but mathematically there can be no complaint.


If this was something that a person had multiple opportunities to do, then I would agree. The problem is, though, that this is not a trial that you can repeat an infinite number of times. You get one shot at it. Get it wrong, and you're left with an amount of money you can do absolutely nothing with. Meanwhile, even if you get it right, the amount of money you'll have won't accomplish a whole lot more than the amount of money you just risked. That makes the £88,000 you're risking just as valuable, if not more valuable, than the £162,000 you'd win if you're successful. That's a down payment on a house you're risking right there; if you're going to gamble it, it should be for much more than just 2 down payments.


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rar4nic

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:39 pm    Author: rar4nic    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:18 pm
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Poor person whoever is in the chair today :laughing What a game to follow!
Aside from someone else winning the big one, or taking out all the blues in consecitive boxes, or falling down dead, or sayin to Noel "you're not really him!" and pulling off a mask to reveal someone else....i can't see that game being beaten. :laughing :laughing :laughing


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lcc

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:47 pm    Author: lcc    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:35 pm
Location: west yorkshire
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i really thought she was going to have the big one 19 is also my birthday i was like swop swop but hey wasnt to be but 88,000 i would have gone at 31,000 but what a poppet hey she went for it proper couldnt believe it :shock:


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cfd

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:57 pm    Author: cfd    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:02 pm
Location: Leeds
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wow.

Utter madness lol

I'd have been gone long before the final 2 boxes most likely.

On the subject of the maths:

In terms of expected value then it was a good no deal (as pretty much every single no deal on this show is).

In terms of expected utility then it's a shockingly poor no deal, for 99% of the population. If you're loaded then by all means take the +EV option. Corinne's utility curve though seemed to be: I want a Bently. £88k will not get me a bently. £250,000 will get me a Bently. So i'll gamble. Fair enough I guess.

But still...

wow.


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wkd

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:59 pm    Author: wkd    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:04 pm
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SeahawkTim wrote:
wkd wrote:
Mathematically it was perfectly sound. Nearly two to one on an even money chance. It might be crazy for a myriad of other possible reasons but mathematically there can be no complaint.


If this was something that a person had multiple opportunities to do, then I would agree. The problem is, though, that this is not a trial that you can repeat an infinite number of times. You get one shot at it. Get it wrong, and you're left with an amount of money you can do absolutely nothing with. Meanwhile, even if you get it right, the amount of money you'll have won't accomplish a whole lot more than the amount of money you just risked. That makes the £88,000 you're risking just as valuable, if not more valuable, than the £162,000 you'd win if you're successful. That's a down payment on a house you're risking right there; if you're going to gamble it, it should be for much more than just 2 down payments.


I don't disagree with your analysis of the value of £88k - which is why you, me, everyone on this forum and 99% of the population wouldn't take the gamble. However, her view was different. She needed the extra £162,000 to fufil her specific dream and she percieved £88,000 as being as much use to her as a chocolate teapot. A highly unusual utility curve as KP has pointed out!

She might be deeply mistaken about the value of money but it was still a perfectly sound decision. If she broke down in tears, crying, 'What have I done?', either at the time or later, then it was a mistake, but if she was comfortable about the risk, making an informed decision based upon fulfilling her dream then that's good enough for me.


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wkd

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:01 pm    Author: wkd    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:04 pm
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cfd wrote:
wow.

Utter madness lol

I'd have been gone long before the final 2 boxes most likely.

On the subject of the maths:

In terms of expected value then it was a good no deal (as pretty much every single no deal on this show is).

In terms of expected utility then it's a shockingly poor no deal, for 99% of the population. If you're loaded then by all means take the +EV option. Corinne's utility curve though seemed to be: I want a Bently. £88k will not get me a bently. £250,000 will get me a Bently. So i'll gamble. Fair enough I guess.

But still...

wow.


Funny, we both seem to have been typing about the utility curves of 99% of the population at the same time!


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MisterAl

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:41 pm    Author: MisterAl    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne
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In summary then, mathematically it was undoubtedly a reasonable decision. But economically it was more questionable.

(Although, given Corinne's ambitions, I'm not going to argue that it was a bad decision economically either.)

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KP

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:33 pm    Author: KP    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne
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For those who are interested; this is a Bentley of more recent vintage she could have bought with the two-box offer. This one costs even less.

Not what she came for, but would she consider it more than half as valuable as the 1920s model she coveted?

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"Why regret what could not be?" (A Heart Full of Love, from Les Misérables)
I introduced utility theory to the forums. Blame me.
In your choices, beware of words leading you astray. Think in a balanced way about potential gains and losses.


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andsaunders

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:16 pm    Author: andsaunders    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:28 am
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What an amazing game that was. I was on the edge of my seat throughout. Sorry about the conclusion!


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Moxx of Balhoom

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:09 am    Author: Moxx of Balhoom    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:21 am
Location: Oxfordshire
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KP wrote:
For those who are interested; this is a Bentley of more recent vintage she could have bought with the two-box offer. This one costs even less.

Not what she came for, but would she consider it more than half as valuable as the 1920s model she coveted?



Didn't she specifically say though that she wanted the Bently manufactured in the year in which she was born - she was clearly an accept no substitutes sort of woman so i doubt she would have compromised like that in that case.

Or i may be getting confused with the car she already had, which reminds me - for those of you unfamiliar with Greek Mythology Eurydice was a nymph and the wife of Orpheus. Legend has it that when she died he followed her to the underworld in an attempt to rescue her...and they say romance is dead :D

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SeahawkTim

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:21 am    Author: SeahawkTim    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:33 pm
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wkd wrote:
A highly unusual utility curve as KP has pointed out!


That's not a curve, that's a stairstep.


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Dr. Hindsight

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:25 am    Author: Dr. Hindsight    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:09 pm
Location: Thornhill, ON
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I am going to come out of retirement for exactly one minute and say this:

That was the most American game I've ever heard of. Here is why.

On the U.S. version, you constantly see players who want something big, and begin to chase the big money as a result. For example, one contestant might say, "I need $1 million because I want (insert name of desired material possession here)." So they begin to chase the big money, turning down lots of generous offers along the way. Sometimes, whatever it is they want is offered to them via a bank offer, but they usually turn it down. Greed then kicks into high gear, and the contestant becomes completely absorbed in it. The end result of most of these games is failure - i.e., someone ends up going home with a less-than-desirable amount of money. Just look at the dusty old U.S. forums if you want more examples of that. It was basically a regular occurrence over there.

This person didn't get their vintage Bentley as an offer, and thus began to chase the money so that she could buy one. Things were looking pretty good for her until she declined that final offer. Personally, I think this was one of the worst decisions in the history of this program. Any sane, balanced person would have taken the 88K. If a survey were to have been conducted with the regular posters of this forum, I am willing to bet $100 Canadian that the results would have shown that most people would have taken that offer. I know I would have.

It's one thing to create a historic moment on this program by being the first person to do something, or by getting a large win, etc., but declining that extremely generous offer was the wrong way to end up in the history books. It is because of games like these that I have lost all faith in all incarnations of this program. Reckless greed has been the downfall of many a DoND contestant, and that is exactly what happened here. Same thing happens in casinos around the world all the time; some supposed high roller is playing poker, slots, blackjack, or something else full-tilt and is doing very well, but winds up losing thousands as a result of one bad decision or play. The funny thing is, all of this could have been avoided, but like I said, the contestant was completely consumed by both greed and her goal, like too many of her American counterparts. The stat-mongers always say to read the board properly and accept well-pitched offers based on the board and how the planets and stars are aligned, etc. due to volatility or whatever (I admit that I really suck at math, statistics, probability, etc.). In addition, they also emphasize that you need to know when to fold. But this person ignored all of that, and thus failed miserably.

To sum this all up in a few words, greed kills. So does speed, but that's another story.

And now, I shall leave you all to ponder this while I resume my retirement. I bid you all good day / afternoon / evening / whatever.

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James1978

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:27 am    Author: James1978    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:47 pm
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Just thought if she'd dealt at 2-box then she could have smashed the record for biggest sale of the 1p box by a staggering 55 grand!!! :shock:

And another thing - W10 is cursed this season, the last person from there to win a red was Gail (since her there's been Jason, Marie, Alex and Corinne.....)

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SeahawkTim

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:24 am    Author: SeahawkTim    Post subject: Re: 07/12 Corinne

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:33 pm
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Mad Mark wrote:
It is because of games like these that I have lost all faith in all incarnations of this program. Reckless greed has been the downfall of many a DoND contestant, and that is exactly what happened here.


At least in the context of the British version, I have to respectfully disagree with this.

I don't think Corinne's gameplan could be defined as "reckless greed". "Blind ambition", absolutely, but it had a focus to it. She wanted a Bentley. A vintage Bentley from the year she was born. £88,000 would buy a Jaguar, an Aston Martin, take your pick of high-level luxury car. But it wouldn't buy her the Bentley she's been pining for most of her adult life. For that reason, she played on. Greed is when you have enough and think you need more; in Corinne's case, she didn't have enough and she knew it. Greed is when you think you can't lose; Corinne was thoroughly prepared for the worst to happen, moreso than players who took risks at far lower stakes.

I also disagree that greed is what may ultimately do the franchise in. DOND may still be going strong on primetime TV over here if the network hadn't been so impatient to find a jackpot winner that they resorted to stacking the board so that half the cases had a million dollars in them. And I know quite a few people who enjoyed the schadenfreude that they'd get when someone who was recklessly greedy went on the show and had reality smack them upside the head. In truth, UK DOND's problem is the polar opposite: paralyzing fear.

It's been touched upon before, but it seems as if so many contestants on the show, due to a combination of the time investment necessary and their life circumstances, are willing to walk away from loaded boards and deal big boxes for a fraction of their worth, just because they're scared to death of leaving with an amount that isn't on the right side of the board. They ascribe so much value to the money they're being offered or have already dealt for, that even when presented with golden opportunities to increase their winnings dramatically for nominal risk, like in Ronnie and Mary's games, they balk. As if some conniving loan shark in a top hat and handlebar mustache is waiting to put a "FORECLOSED" sign on their house, repossess their car, eat all the food in the fridge and kick out Tiny Tim's crutches if he's not paid at least £1000 when they return from the studio.

For all the emotional and psychological stress the game places on the contestants, they still need to recognize that it's a bloody game show. As poor as her decision was when put in a vacuum, I think Corinne was the first person in months - at least since I started watching - to recognize that she's playing a game, and that the world will not stop spinning on its axis if she pushes her luck a bit too far. For that reason, I tip my hat to her. Corinne wasn't greedy, not nearly on the level of US players who are utterly unprepared for the bottom to fall out of their games; she just took her one shot and missed. Her risk may have been ill-advised, but I think most people will agree with me that this show needs more players like Corinne to average out the teeming droves who are perfectly content to play it safe.


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