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KP

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:34 pm    Author: KP    Post subject:
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croftrock wrote:


Nah. He's framing it for the audience at home who are mostly eating beans on toast and won't listen unless it sounds epic. He's just a huge publicist. That's what he does. It's not for the player's benefit - he just cares about image/viewers/impact etc.[/quote]

That's actually the real problem, then. People are tuning in in their millions - not many millions these days, but still a big audience - to hear a game show host dismiss tens of thousands of pounds with sometimes very little thought, praising those 'courageous' enough to think likewise, dismissing those who do not dismiss money.

And don't tell me people don't listen to that and potentially internalise it, especially the six-figure childrens' audience the show pulls in. Just look at this forum!

That's a frightening prospect.

Quote:
The player isn't affected one jot. They only really listen to each other, much of which is cut, but that's mainly "remember what you told me to tell you" stuff. Real money makes people focus selfishly!


To which I offer the counterexample of the runs of reckless gambling in January/February. Though that might be framed by the boards we had at the time making the players think they couldn't lose...

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Ignore Noel, he's wallpaper. It's a great gameshow!


A great gameshow with a fatal flaw.

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james_bwfc

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:43 pm    Author: james_bwfc    Post subject:
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You're ALL WRONG!

It is 4-1 to the dream factory, Enid LOST to the banker.

Quote:
anyway, great game and robert TECHNICALLY beat the banker!


Correct, Enid TECHNICALLY LOST to the banker. Debbie drew so okay that's a player win.

Next thing you know TPW's will be counted as banker wins!


Last edited by james_bwfc on Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Power5

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:46 pm    Author: Power5    Post subject:
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In response to KP's post above - gambling has always been a feature of game shows, and audiences have always been Wakeyistic (just think of the shouts of "gamble!" from studio audiences, which have probably been happening since the game show was invented).

If you're as anti-gambling as you appear in certain posts, I'm surprised you watch any game shows at all really. Noel does overdo it a bit on occasions, most would probably admit that, but the fact is that the majority of the audience want exciting games, and I suspect the producers encourage him to encourage no-dealing! Contestants are capable of making their own decisions, and I'd be surprised if it inspired the young viewers to become gambling addicts, they probably don't even make the connection.

Anyway, well done to Robert and good to see this run continue!

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Zeddie

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:46 pm    Author: Zeddie    Post subject:

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Everyone here who is debating against it being 5-0 is a pessimist.

5-0!

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croftrock

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:48 pm    Author: croftrock    Post subject:

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KP wrote:
croftrock wrote:


Nah. He's framing it for the audience at home who are mostly eating beans on toast and won't listen unless it sounds epic. He's just a huge publicist. That's what he does. It's not for the player's benefit - he just cares about image/viewers/impact etc.


That's actually the real problem, then. People are tuning in in their millions - not many millions these days, but still a big audience - to hear a game show host dismiss tens of thousands of pounds with sometimes very little thought, praising those 'courageous' enough to think likewise, dismissing those who do not dismiss money.

And don't tell me people don't listen to that and potentially internalise it, especially the six-figure childrens' audience the show pulls in. Just look at this forum!

That's a frightening prospect.

Quote:
The player isn't affected one jot. They only really listen to each other, much of which is cut, but that's mainly "remember what you told me to tell you" stuff. Real money makes people focus selfishly!


To which I offer the counterexample of the runs of reckless gambling in January/February. Though that might be framed by the boards we had at the time making the players think they couldn't lose...

Quote:
Ignore Noel, he's wallpaper. It's a great gameshow!




A great gameshow with a fatal flaw.[/quote]

It's nonsense to suggest that his building the drama of a situation with hyperbole risks breeding a generation who disrespect money. It is clearly harmless overdramatics to absolutely everyone. Look at any p*sstake of Deal and it has Noel saying it's the "greatest game since time began". People laugh at him for it. No one takes it as advice or implicitly absorbs it.

People gambled in January because they felt they could win due to recent events and circumstances. Same way that lottery sales go up every single time a big win is publicised.

It's just good fun. There's no socially relevant fatal flaw. Some people gamble; some don't. You clearly understand economics perfectly; other don't, not because they are being misled, but because they are not interested.

I love Deal because I love watching them fighting to keep it fun when luck makes a dull game. It's open and honest and has to deal with whatever life throws at it and that for me is what makes it human and great.


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Power5

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:49 pm    Author: Power5    Post subject:
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james_bwfc wrote:
You're ALL WRONG!

It is 4-5 to the dream factory, Enid LOST to the banker.

Quote:
anyway, great game and robert TECHNICALLY beat the banker!


Correct, Enid TECHNICALLY LOST to the banker. Debbie drew so okay that's a player win.

Next thing you know TPW's will be counted as banker wins!

You seem to know a lot about the way we "score" games here for someone who's only been around 3 days... ;)

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james_bwfc

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:50 pm    Author: james_bwfc    Post subject:
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I have closely followed this site and ones such as bothers bar, digital spy and others like it. I am familiar with these terms!


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cookie_monster

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:58 pm    Author: cookie_monster    Post subject:
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:roll: :roll: Looks like I will need to post this here too...

I'd say it was. Not Outright player wins but still player wins as they have sold their box for a higher amount which their box had contained, making them do a good deal. Like Robert sold his box for £20k odd when he only had 10p. If he got his largest offer in the game, it would have been an OPW but he still beat the banker as something lower then what he dealt at was in his box. If robert had £35,000 in his box it would have meant he would have lost.

And Enid didn't deal at an offer of under £3,000, which means it wasn't a banker victory.

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KP

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:01 pm    Author: KP    Post subject:
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Power5 wrote:
Contestants are capable of making their own decisions, and I'd be surprised if it inspired the young viewers to become gambling addicts, they probably don't even make the connection.


I, for one, rather hope you are correct...

Very good point on the central role of risk and reward in previous game shows (though most of these had a skill element, which this one doesn't). I tend to watch most game shows for the element of 'challenge' and skill, and playing along with some of the trivia, or in the case of Mastermind/University Challenge just raising my eyebrows at it most nights... which might be why I don't watch either much now... :p

And I watch DoND as a game of economics and perhaps am oversensitive to that. I'm quite prepared to admit I'm in a minority of literally a few thousand.

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james_bwfc

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:03 pm    Author: james_bwfc    Post subject:
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cookie_monster wrote:
:roll: :roll: Looks like I will need to post this here too...

I'd say it was. Not Outright player wins but still player wins as they have sold their box for a higher amount which their box had contained, making them do a good deal. Like Robert sold his box for £20k odd when he only had 10p. If he got his largest offer in the game, it would have been an OPW but he still beat hte banker as something lower then what he dealt at was in his box. If robert had £35,000 in his box it would have meant he would have lost.


Lets look at the term TBW. BW means BANKER WIN and T means TECHNICAL. The banker didn't win outrightly, he still won technically for the reasons behind a TBW; just like in the case of a TPW the player has still won it technically! If TBW is classed as a player win to you then how isn't a TPW classed as a banker win to you? You've just redefined the meaning!


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redrum666

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:15 pm    Author: redrum666    Post subject:
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FOR GOODNESS SAKE! ENID DID NOT LOSE TO THE BANKER!

OK, so she MISSED OUT on £33,000 but the banker doesn't GAIN £33,000, he LOSES £19,000 because he paid £22,000 for a box that contained £3,000. He saved the amount of money he paid out but he still lost £19,000

These terms are just terms used by the crazy statisticians. I originally agreed but this has gotten beyond a joke now.


5-0 to the dream factory

:smt026 :smt026

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Last edited by redrum666 on Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cookie_monster

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:15 pm    Author: cookie_monster    Post subject:
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Right. We aim to not start conflict. We aim to be a good time. Enough people seem to think it is 5-0 so let it die!

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cookie_monster

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:16 pm    Author: cookie_monster    Post subject:
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redrum666 wrote:
FOR GOODNESS SAKE! ENID DID NOT LOSE TO THE BANKER!

OK, so she MISSED OUT on £33,000 but the banker doesn't GAIN £33,000, he LOSES £19,000 because he paid £22,000 for a box that contained £3,000. He saved the amount of money he paid out but he still lost £19,000

These terms are just terms used by the crazy statisticians. I originally agreed but this has gotten beyond a joke now.


5-0 to the dream factory

:smt026 :smt026


couldnt have wrote it better myself Red.

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KP

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:16 pm    Author: KP    Post subject:
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Two perfect games and three very profitable deals. Who cares what the score is, the Banker sure ain't winning this week as a whole!

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I introduced utility theory to the forums. Blame me.
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james_bwfc

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:15 pm    Author: james_bwfc    Post subject:
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Scoring games like this is unreliable though. You're all saying the banker lost etc etc when he didn't once and then Debbies game which was a draw etc etc it really isn't 5 nil but I can see why you think it is.

When the banker gets an outright win we'll see what Noel says then... probably nothing.

Regarding Noel today, he was right to shout at the pilgrims! They shouldn't have clapped. It's exactly like clapping £250,000 when it goes in active play. Wrong!


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Tom

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:19 pm    Author: Tom    Post subject:

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That game rocked! Robert was brilliant, a really nice guy who deserved the money!! Well done!!!

[W8 is becoming my favourite position..the last 3 contestants have been great!]


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redrum666

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:37 pm    Author: redrum666    Post subject:
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james_bwfc wrote:
Scoring games like this is unreliable though. You're all saying the banker lost etc etc when he didn't once and then Debbies game which was a draw etc etc it really isn't 5 nil but I can see why you think it is.

When the banker gets an outright win we'll see what Noel says then... probably nothing.

Regarding Noel today, he was right to shout at the pilgrims! They shouldn't have clapped. It's exactly like clapping £250,000 when it goes in active play. Wrong!


OK, in the eyes of the way YOU score the games, the banker didn't lose. However, the producers probably have their own way of scoring the games and don't pay any attention to fans because they have their own formula for what makes a Win and a Loss, therefore what they say is right because it is up to them. (It's a bit like Fair Deal- they have their own version more than likely)

In terms of Noel shouting at the pilgrims, what right does he have to shout? If they want to clap then let them. And if the £250,000 goes in active play and people clap, it is normally applause to boost the player back up and encourage them. It's not as if they clap the loss of the £250,000, they clap afterwards to help the player feel more confident again.

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Billy

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:55 pm    Author: Billy    Post subject:
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Yay, do the 5-0 dance! :banana:

What a week, what a game, one of those great "He's doing well...no he isn't...yes he is...no he isn't...yay yes he is!" ones. Amazing that the box amounts this week so far have been 1p, 10p, 50p, £3,000 and £35,000, and the one who had the £35k won it and the others dealt for thousands more than their boxes!

Well done on that £20,000, Robert, another fantastic victory and a great 5-0 lead against the Banker!

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basicasic

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:20 pm    Author: basicasic    Post subject:
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Who cares what the banker's score is ! It's 5 great boards and 5 good wins in a row. Helps makes up for the relentless run of terrible luck a while back.

A good game today and a decent enough win. He did the right thing at 8 box by no-dealing so I don't begrudge him his deal at 5 box despite the still strong board.

And the 10p in his box was the icing on the cake.

And as for Noel. I think he's an excellent presenter. Almost perfect for the show. Apart from a couple of miseries on here everyone I speak to think he does a great job.

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alexandercbrown

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:16 am    Author: alexandercbrown    Post subject:

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If Noel were so bad then he would have been complaining about Debbie and Enid dealing to soon wouldn't he?! He wouldn't be saying 5-0.
Noel's always been a silly and OTT but you shouldn't take him too seriously. People have been playing their own games this week and Noel hasn't been too bad IMO.
He's being more positive than he was 5/6 months ago.

Apart from Jon's game (before the break) he hasn't been too bad.


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