As I said over on the thread, does Iris' game count as an OPW? Given that she was initially offered £11,500 at 14-box, should £10,000 count as the highest offer of the game?

I recall in Andrea's game from December 2010, when she was initially offered £12,000 at 5-box, and later had it reduced to £11,999. She dealt, and it worked out, but Noel said it wasn't an OPW as she had initially been offered £12,000.

What do you think?

Whatever the case, it still doesn't undo the fact that Iris' deal was pretty cautious. Most cautious I've seen for a while.

I'm not counting it as an OPW. If she had kept quiet about how low an offer she was willing to take then the Banker - obviously - wouldn't have lowered the offer.

Actually, to be honest, when I think about it more I wouldn't describe her as cautious. She just didn't have a clue about stats and how strong the board was; and the fact that she possibly could have had a LOT more money if she carried on. I reckon she would have dealt £10,000 on a £5k vs. £250k board.

I went for NO as it was completely her fault that the Banker lowered the £11,500 offer.

I've invented a new term to describes Iris's game, a "player juicing", as the Banker got Iris with the lowest offer he could have conceivably made with the board. Other examples of "player juicings" include Beryl, £8k Sherilyn, and Katie Chipchase. Examples of its inverse, "banker juicings" include Ryan from yesturday, £54k Mally, and £120k Jennifer.

But had she No Dealt she wouldn't have had a lot more money, so does that make her cleverer than you?

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Of course it was!

Only the offer that Noel asks the question in relation to is the offer that should be counted. We don't count the lower offers when Noel messes with them.. (i.e Ryans 8 box offer yesterday) so why should we when the Banker messes with them??

Well, technically, I see no reason why it's not an OPW. Peak offer, lower amount in box.

One, two, three, four, it's as simple as that and game-set-match for me. OPW. Solved in 8 seconds.

Praise the Lord, I second this!

No. The second offer, made in purely conventional fashion, was £11,500. If Iris had realised she could quietly take it, she'd have done so, and won £11,500. So she didn't take the most from the game. And as pointed out with the example of Andrea, it's historically consistent to take this treatment (and I can't think of many game shows with such respect for its history).

That she didn't realise that is another matter, and the most interesting point of the game for me. The Banker reacted cleverly (though with surprising venom - I've been in several live games where 14-box gets some genuine consideration and nothing like this happened), but why did he get the chance?

Thank you! Exactly what I was trying to say.

No. £11,500 was the max if you ask me.

Well, the offer to me is not necessarily the initial figure presented to the player but, rather, the final. Because Noel has many a time told the player to the effect of... "It's £12,000! Oh, no, it's £14,000! Oh, hang on, it's really £16,000!" and so on. Now, is £12,000 the offer simply because Noel has said "your offer is £12,000"? No. £16,000 is the offer because it's the final amount offered to the player for him/her to decide upon.

I believe that works exactly the same when the offer is altered in the opposite direction. Whether it's an increase or a decrease matters not to me; what's final is final, and the final offer was £10,000, which was dealt. There was no higher figure in the game, and a lower amount was in the box; as put, 4-3-2-1, OPW.

IMO, of course.

Well, I'm counting it as the offer when the question is put to the player, so an OPW for me!

no theres no way its an opw if the player could have had more money she lost out on at least £1 500

You could say that, but then, the final offer put to Iris was £10,000. Yes, theoretically she's lost out on £1,500, but if she'd kept her mouth shut, to put it bluntly, she'd have been offered that £11,500.

I think we've had instances where the Banker's phoned, put an "offer" to the player, and something has happened which made him call again and alter that offer. By precedent, we've always accepted the altered offer as the final offer, and the offer which is put on record. So I don't see how this game is any different.

It's different because she made one of the WORST deals in the history of the show (undoubtedly even worse than Richard/Wilf ) and yet she was undeservedly rewarded knowing she "spanked" the banker and got the "top" of the game. An average player would've been offered £20,000 on her 11 box and she would've had she kept her Beryl-esque mouth shut. I am willing to call this a Technical OPW at best, as she could have gotten a LOT more out of the game in technical terms, either through not presenting herself as ridiculously cautious or by taking the predictable 4 or 3 box extra offer.

Wasn't there some game where the contestant dealt, chose boxes, and then revealed those were the boxes she wanted to keep to the end, prompting the banker to pseudo-offer some ridiculous amount like £247,000 since he didn't want to play honestly if she wasn't? I think he made an actual prove-out offer soon afterwards. Did that £247,000 count in the consideration of OPW/TPW?

(I apologize that I don't know which game this was. I don't have a complete memory of all games like some people here. )

I don't know which game that was. But I recall in Theo's game from last September, when he dealt £21,000 at 8-box, then opened a box he'd previously said he was avoiding previously, and hit the £250,000! He later all but admitted he'd gone to that box on purpose, and wouldn't have in LIVE play, leading to a joke hypo-offer of £180,000!

That's the one! I clearly can't tell my men from my women, nor £180,000 from £247,000!

Well, what was deserved or not doesn't matter statistically. I don't think that deal was worthy of an OPW in that situation myself, but the game played out as it did, and it did so in her favour regardless of any of our personal preferences/decisions here.

In technical terms, she couldn't have got any more out of the game. £10,000 was the highest figure put to her. She took it. She left the game at its peak. In cold, harsh, technical, statistical terms, which excludes the moments when the player says "oh but I could really do with £10,000...." etc, looking at the game as if it's written out on the Stats section of this website, there's no reason why this is not an OPW. I understand the speculation re £11,500 but that's all it is - £10,000 was the cold, hard offer to Iris which she dealt. It also being the highest amount available to her in her game, this is her win outright.