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Power5

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:45 pm    Author: Power5    Post subject: Game Scoring (originally from Bother's Bar)
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With Bother's Bar now closed, for DOND commentary purposes at least, I thought it was a good idea to post the scoring system that was devised on there and has now come into common use on this site as well. Maybe Kestral or H could "sticky" it?

Types of result

* Outright Player Win (OPW): The contestant deals for the highest (or joint highest) of the six offers, which is greater than their box amount OR
The contestant no-deals to the end and wins an amount greater than any of the offers.

* Outright Banker Win (OBW): The contestant deals for an amount lower than the box value, OR
The contestant no-deals to the end and wins an amount lower than the peak offer.

If neither of these apply, a technical result is calculated as follows:

* Technical Player Win (TPW): The contestant deals for an amount greater than the box value, and more than half the peak offer.
The score is determined by the percentage of the peak offer they win, for example if it is 60% then it is a TPW 60-40.

* Technical Banker Win (TBW): The contestant deals for an amount greater than the box value, but less than half the peak offer.
The score is determined by the percentage of the peak offer they win, for example if it is 30% then it is a TBW 70-30.

* Technical Draw (TD): The contestant deals for exactly half the peak offer (and this amount is greater than the box value).

A special case of the OBW is the:

* Outright Player Loss (OPL): The contestant deals the lowest of the six offers, which is also lower than the box amount.
(In theory a player no-dealing to the end and winning less than the lowest offer could also be credited with an OPL, but the first, and rarer, definition is the one for which it tends to be used.)

Finally, there's been some debate about whether this one exists:

* Outright Draw (OD): The contestant deals for the same amount as the box value, or no-deals to the end and wins the same as the peak offer.
However, if the player gets the most money possible out of the game then some have suggested it would be fair to call it an OPW!

Swaps

The convention generally used is that the swap is counted if it happens in-play, but not if it is hypothetical (post-deal). In other words, the box the player had in front of them at the time of the deal is counted (or at the end if they did not deal).

Stats people and former BB regulars, please feel free to point out any errors/omissions in my summary!


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kestral

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:08 pm    Author: kestral    Post subject:
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Thanks for this fantastic guide Power5, I am sure everyone will find it very useful when reading through the site.

I have made it a sticky so that it is easy to refer to.

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daniel123

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:42 pm    Author: daniel123    Post subject:
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As one of many keen "stats people" around here, i have something to say as always.....

Bothers bar classes an OBW as someone dealing for less than the box contained - thus if, say, you dealt at £175,000 and your box had £250,000 in it, bother's bar would class it as an OBW, right? Well, not quite.

Is there really such thing as a TD?

There isnt such thing as an OPL or OBL, surely - isn't that the same as OBW and OPW?

Outright draw - The only proper draw in my eyes.

Swaps - I agree, the amount inside the original box counts

Overall though, good idea to copy the scoring system onto here, 'tis a great shame BB have stopped doing the commentaries, and am sure a lot of people here [including myself] will find that useful, thanks P5

And one last thing: 1 comment, here :-D

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Simon F

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:59 am    Author: Simon F    Post subject:
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daniel123 wrote:

There isnt such thing as an OPL or OBL, surely - isn't that the same as OBW and OPW?



An OPL isn't the same as a OBW. Using mathemetical terminology, an OPL is a subset of OBW's (i.e all Outright Player Losses are Outright Banker wins but not vice versa).

It's like saying all £250K boxes are red but all red boxes aren't £250K.


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daniel123

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:47 am    Author: daniel123    Post subject:
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Simon F wrote:
daniel123 wrote:

There isnt such thing as an OPL or OBL, surely - isn't that the same as OBW and OPW?



An OPL isn't the same as a OBW. Using mathemetical terminology, an OPL is a subset of OBW's (i.e all Outright Player Losses are Outright Banker wins but not vice versa).

It's like saying all £250K boxes are red but all red boxes aren't £250K.


OK.....i see now.

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greeny

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:19 am    Author: greeny    Post subject:

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Is an OPL when someone deals at the lowest offer in a game and the box contains a higher amount? I seem to recall Nathan and Christine getting OPLs.


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alexandercbrown

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:47 am    Author: alexandercbrown    Post subject:

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greeny wrote:
Is an OPL when someone deals at the lowest offer in a game and the box contains a higher amount? I seem to recall Nathan and Christine getting OPLs.


David and Tess got them as well.

Shahid (1) dealt at 1k and had 3K in his box, there are several others.


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Power5

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:52 pm    Author: Power5    Post subject:
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A few of the recent "comedy deals" have been OPL's as well!

I don't think it was part of the original scoring system they devised, but someone later came up with the term to describe a game like that where the player took the lowest offer possible, and it has stuck. They've been fairly rare but I seem to remember a couple of spells where they kept happening (including that one around March-April this year with a few of the names mentioned above!)

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Oh and five others, guess I need to update this!


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KP

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:48 pm    Author: KP    Post subject:
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A lesser-used one that I devised, also a subdivision of OBW: Least-Bad Deal (LBD).

This refers to a game where the player takes the game's highest offer but the box contains more. Examples include Annie's game yesterday.

No, OPL was not an original part of the system but someone devised it as a subdivision of OBW and it stuck.

Very well-written and concise guide Power5!

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daniel123

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:04 pm    Author: daniel123    Post subject:
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Power5 wrote:
A few of the recent "comedy deals" have been OPL's as well!

I don't think it was part of the original scoring system they devised, but someone later came up with the term to describe a game like that where the player took the lowest offer possible, and it has stuck. They've been fairly rare but I seem to remember a couple of spells where they kept happening (including that one around March-April this year with a few of the names mentioned above!)


That's an OBW.

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daniel123

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:05 pm    Author: daniel123    Post subject:
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KP wrote:
A lesser-used one that I devised, also a subdivision of OBW: Least-Bad Deal (LBD).

This refers to a game where the player takes the game's highest offer but the box contains more. Examples include Annie's game yesterday.

No, OPL was not an original part of the system but someone devised it as a subdivision of OBW and it stuck.

Very well-written and concise guide Power5!


Pretty sure LBD won't stick, since thats basically another word for TBW.

BB really did think of everything... :roll:

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KP

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:18 pm    Author: KP    Post subject:
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Um, it's not.

A TBW is selling a box for less than half the peak offer (usually though not always from going too soon) but having more in the box.

An LBD is almost the opposite - selling a box for the peak offer, but having less in the box.

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alexandercbrown

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:21 pm    Author: alexandercbrown    Post subject:

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Shouldn't it be....

KP wrote:

A TBW is selling a box for less than half the peak offer (usually though not always from going too soon) but having less in the box.

An LBD is almost the opposite - selling a box for the peak offer, but having more in the box.


I wasn't completely sure on this.


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KP

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:26 pm    Author: KP    Post subject:
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What alexandercbrown said.

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corncrake

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:36 am    Author: corncrake    Post subject: Re: Game Scoring (originally from Bother's Bar)
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Power5 wrote:
The contestant no-deals to the end and wins an amount lower than the peak offer.


This one has been bugging me for a while as to why it is classified as an OBW in some extreme cases. Such as 75k Kirsty or 50k Lynne, where they still came away from the game with amazing sums of money yet it is counted as a banker win. If Lynne dealt £50,000 and had a peak offer of £75,000 then it is scored as a TPW. Can't cases like Lynne and Kirsty be counted as a TPW as well? :)


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Simon F

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:41 am    Author: Simon F    Post subject: Re: Game Scoring (originally from Bother's Bar)
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corncrake wrote:
Power5 wrote:
The contestant no-deals to the end and wins an amount lower than the peak offer.


This one has been bugging me for a while as to why it is classified as an OBW in some extreme cases. Such as 75k Kirsty or 50k Lynne, where they still came away from the game with amazing sums of money yet it is counted as a banker win. If Lynne dealt £50,000 and had a peak offer of £75,000 then it is scored as a TPW. Can't cases like Lynne and Kirsty be counted as a TPW as well? :)


It's not a player win because if you open your box for less than the largest amount you've been offered - then you've made the wrong decision.


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corncrake

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:10 am    Author: corncrake    Post subject:
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Surely going by that logic dealing an offer even over 50% of the peak offer is still making a wrong decision? It shouldn't be a TPW then!

How is dealing £50,000 when the peak offer was £75,000 any different to opening a £50,000 box after turning down £75,000 in terms of monetary loss?


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Simon F

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:40 pm    Author: Simon F    Post subject:
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corncrake wrote:
Surely going by that logic dealing an offer even over 50% of the peak offer is still making a wrong decision? It shouldn't be a TPW then!

How is dealing £50,000 when the peak offer was £75,000 any different to opening a £50,000 box after turning down £75,000 in terms of monetary loss?


By your logic, opening a blue box when turning down a large offer would be a Technical Banker Win rather than an Overall Banker Win. I know Kirsty's game was a big win but going to the end and opening your box can't be classified the same as dealing for the same amount.


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corncrake

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:54 pm    Author: corncrake    Post subject:
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I see what you mean. Maybe count a game like Kirsty's as a TBW? It seems to harsh to score those games an OBW.


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MisterAl

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:34 pm    Author: MisterAl    Post subject:
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corncrake wrote:
I see what you mean. Maybe count a game like Kirsty's as a TBW? It seems to harsh to score those games an OBW.


Harsh, but fair. (It's not as though somebody who wins £75k is going to be too bothered about what us internet nerds classify their game as, anyway...)

The classifications come from the basic premise of the game -- that the player has their own box which they can either sell to the banker or keep for themselves. If they sell it for less than it's worth, they've lost the game. If they choose not to sell it, but could have had more, they've lost the game. Simple.

Of course, with box swaps and other gimmicky stuff like that happening the idea of the player having 'their' box is often overlooked. But that's the rationale behind the classifications.

The complications come in when a player sells their box for more than it's worth, but not for as much as they could have had. Those are the only times that a game is classed as a 'technical' win/loss, rather than an 'outright' win/loss.


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